A couple of nights ago, among the new species for my garden (Pale Pinion and a beautiful Brindled Beauty), there were the usual variety of shades of brown for Common Quaker - but also one shade that I had not seen before (I have seen rich dark brown, but not this shade of 'drab'). Below to the left is a 'usual' shade and on the right the drab - always assuming I have identified it correctly).
Also - for confirmation - there were two Clouded Drabs of different shades and shapes (the left one has a rather rounded wing shape, unlike others):
and can the Pug shown in the following picture be confirmed as a Brindled?
John Thacker
Harwell, Oxon
Hello John, your pug looks to me like Common Pug.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Dave. I assume from the lack of comment on the first two sets that these are correctly identified. I am still puzzled by the Pug: I had understood that one distinctive feature of the Brindled/Oak-tree Pugs was the presence of the dark 'arrowheads' on the submedian crossline - as well as in the case of Brindled the small elongate discal mark (both features seen here). I have not seen the arrowheads in any illustration or description of a Common Pug - while I do see that there are (faint) subterminal whitish spots and tornal spot at least on one wing (often found for Common). So it would be very helpful to know which criteria you use to distinguish a Common Pug (forewing shape and colour do not seem to be a good criteria in this instance, from what I have read)? Sorry to pick your brains again!
ReplyDeleteHello John,
ReplyDeleteI hadn't really looked at your Orthosias. The second pair are definitely both Clouded Drab and I would have said the right hand one of the first pair is a drab too rather than a quaker.
So far as pugs are concerned I start off by stepping back and looking at the general appearance. In the case of your particular moth, to me the most obvious features are the lack of a discal spot and the hint of a small whitish area in the corner of the trailing edge of the forewing. I think maybe you are looking too hard at your picture, finding things that I don't think are really there (the discal spot and arrowhead brindling). Having said all that, I'm not infallible! It has also been said many times that trying to identify a moth from someone else's photo rather than having the specimen in front of you is a mug's game - and that's particularly true with pugs.
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ReplyDeleteDave, thanks very much for this very honest appraisal - it is fascinating how differently we see the features of this moth! When I look at it in general (using the moth itself or a small image) what I see first is arrowhead brindling, especially two dark arrowheads near to the dorsum, and then I also see small narrow discal spots. As I noted above, secondarily I see faint pale sub-terminal spot(s). You see the reverse, it seems. I don't think that I am looking too hard at the image, but it is true that when I look at a larger image the key features that I see appear less definite (the arrowheads could perhaps be viewed as part of the dark venation of the wing, and the discal spots less obvious). This brings me closer to your interpretation - but in the end it seems to be in the eye of the beholder (differences in pattern recognition?)
DeleteI viewed the top pair of Orthiosas as Quakers because their basic features seem very similar in almost all respects except for the colour - with the right-hand moth showing no dark markings on the outer crossline - but I am very happy to record it as a (presumably Lead-coloured) Drab. Many thanks again.